Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Okęcie Airport incident/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 03:58, 1 August 2014 .

Nominator(s): —Cliftonian (talk) 23:39, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Chances are you've never heard of this, but don't scroll past just yet if you're interested in either football or the Cold War, because this is actually quite an interesting little episode in Poland in 1980. It basically centres on the Poland football team's forward player Stanisław Terlecki, who also happened to be both an anti-communist activist and a bit of a cheeky so-and-so. Poland were at the time one of the best football teams around. In November 1980 their goalkeeper got drunk the night before their departure for Italy and was left behind as punishment. Terlecki, who had already been repeatedly banned for trying to unionise the footballers, led the players in an ultimately successful revolt against management over the goalkeeper, then directly defied the communist authorities by arranging for the mostly Catholic team to meet the Pope in Rome. Terlecki and three other players were sent home, a rather spurious court-martial ensued and Terlecki ended up emigrating to America. He returned home in 1986 with hopes of regaining his place in the team but never played for Poland again.

I took this up to GA a couple years ago, and have just polished it up a bit in the last few days. I am confident it now meets the FA criteria. —Cliftonian (talk) 23:39, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

• Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Cliftonian. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

• Comment. Reviewing this for WP:POLAND:
  • "industrial unrest"?
    • I don't see any problem with this term; are you saying it is incorrect grammatically or that it is not an accurate description? —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
      • Can you reference it? I just redirected the unref stub we had on industrial unrest to labor unrest which I think would be more appopriate, but in either case you probably should reference the use of those terms in this context. Presumably by repeating and footnoting this phrase in the article body. Ditto for political unrest. As a sociologist, I do think that the use of such terms should not be hap-hazzard, but properly thought-out and referenced. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
        • I've tried to phrase this better, with another new reference in the body; we now refer to strike action and other forms of civil resistance for political change. Is this better? —Cliftonian (talk) 09:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
  • "The punishments regarded by many as too harsh" - missing "were", and weaselish
    • Fair enough —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • "The first non-communist trade union in an Eastern bloc country," - this probably should be split into a stand alone sentence
    • Have redrawn —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • "top sides" - I think just saying "best" would sound better
    • OK —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • soccer terminology like "forward" should be linked
    • OK, I have gone through and put links; please tell me if I missed any —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • " the intellectual Terlecki " this sounds off
    • OK —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • "held a degree in history " - masters?
    • The source statement (from Sports Illustrated) doesn't say: "He earned a degree in history from the University of Lodz and thus became the first national team member to have graduated from a university in anything but physical education." —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
    • Perhaps User:Tymek would be able to help. I'd like to see him comment here? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
  • can you discuss notability of Hotel Vera and why it should or shouldn't be linked in light of WP:RED?
    • I don't know anything about it, frankly, apart from that this happened there. Is it well known in Poland? —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
      • I concur it doesn't seem notable.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Wojciech Zieliński is probably notable, has an article on pl wiki pl:Wojciech Zieliński (komentator sportowy). Ditto for pl:Stefan Szczepłek and pl:Włodzimierz Reczek, and the magazines pl:Piłka Nożna (tygodnik) and pl:Tempo (gazeta). If you think any of them are not notable, please explain it here, otherwise link them per WP:RED
    • OK, I redlinked all of them —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • "A senior national team official, Colonel" - I am not sure I understand his position...? Security/bodyguard?
    • I don't actually have the full article (Tymek originally added the information, I think), and in any case it's in Polish, so I think I'll leave this for him. (Note for others: Tymek has been messaged and pinged.) —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
      • Waiting for an update. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
  • "whose own car was to hand" - is this English? What hand? "At hand"?
    • "to hand" is proper English, I am fairly sure. —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • briefly explain what Przegląd Sportowy was (another sports magazine)
    • OK —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • "The players, who were mostly Catholics," - who wasn't?
    • I put it this way rather than saying "all Catholics" to allow for the assumption that at least a couple of them may have been atheists. (The sources don't cover the players' religion in any real detail.) I think it's relatively safe if you prefer to say they were all Catholics (as on paper they probably all were), or perhaps we can say "predominantly Catholic" or something like that? —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
      • Well, what the sources say? Otherwise we are dealing with OR. It is likely all players were raised as Catholics, but... we need sources for their faith, or this should be dropped. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
        • OK, well I think we can take it out without losing too much of the meaning anyway (most people with a cursory knowledge of Poland would be aware that the country is overwhelmingly Catholic) —Cliftonian (talk) 09:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
  • generals are notable by default, so why wasn't pl:Marian Ryba linked to Marian Ryba?
    • OK —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • link Ministry of Internal Affairs (Poland)
    • OK —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Terlecki played in Poland until 1993, I think, while the article gives the impression that upon his return he was never allowed to do so
    • Sorry for being ambiguous, should have made clear he played at club level (albeit not internationally) after he came back. Have rectified this —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • pinging User:Tymek who knows a lot about Polish soccer's history.
    • I messaged him already (he helped a lot with this article already!) but thanks for this, good thought —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
• Overall, nice job. Ping me when the above are fixed or argued, and I'll consider whether I am ready to support. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:08, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the review Piotr, I have answered each point above. I hope you are well and look forward to continuing the review —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
    • Ping User:Cliftonian: replies left, most issues addressed. Leaning to support, will support once all issues are fixed, likely. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
      • User:Piotrus, have tried to address some of the outstanding issues, still waiting for User:Tymek on the others. Thanks again for reviewing and have a great weekend —Cliftonian (talk) 09:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
        • Hi again User:Piotrus, Tymek does not seem to have a lot of free time at the moment, so perhaps somebody else from the Polish project might be able to help us out here? —Cliftonian (talk) 16:45, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
          • Tymek seems to have enough time to create new stubs, and unfortunately my time is taken up cleaning them as part of the weekly New Poland Article cleanup, so... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 17:09, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done

• Is there meant to be something in the now-empty Footnote section?
  • No, there was but took it out, thanks —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
• GBooks links can be truncated after page number
  • OK —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
• Be consistent in whether periodicals include location and/or publisher
  • OK —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
• Archivedate and accessdate should have the same formatting. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:27, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
• Thanks for this Nikki. —Cliftonian (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Comments: I was the GA reviewer of this article some considerable time ago and remember enjoying it greatly. It seems even better now, and I will be happy to support once my very minor concerns are addressed. Nice work. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:48, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• "which in turn led to first the suspension of several prominent players": To my ear, "led first to..." sounds more natural but maybe that's me.

• No you're right, that's better. Nice eye (ear?) —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "was tired and hungover when the time came to leave the hotel": Is hungover formal enough for the lead here? (Sounds like an old Private Eye headline about "tired and emotional"...

• I've shortened to just "hungover" as the fact that he was tired seems to be included therein (rare indeed that you have somebody who is hungover but not tired) —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "having spent a sleepless night on the town drinking with a friend": Sleepless night I think usually suggests insomnia; we could perhaps lose "sleepless" altogether, but perhaps if something is needed, maybe "having not been to sleep following a night on the town with a friend"?

• I've adopted your wording, which I think is better and clearer —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "much to the indignation of some of the other players" Redundancy?

• Yes —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "Smolarek received a more modest ban, with a suspension period": Something of a tautology here, as it would be hard to be banned without a period of suspension!

• Ah! What is meant is that the punishment was suspended (like a suspended sentence), so nothing actually happened to him. I've changed to "Smolarek received a more modest, suspended ban", which I hope is clearer (and better prose) —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "In June 1976, a series of protests took place across communist Poland": Would this be better as "During June 1976..."? Not sure.

• Hmmm. I'll think about this one. I prefer "in" myself, just because it's shorter. —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "the government announced plans to sharply increase the fixed prices charged nationwide for many basic commodities": A split infinitive is, I think, perfectly acceptable but does drive some pedants to rage and is a target for some person to comment on when this reaches the main page. Perhaps best avoided?

• Have changed to "to increase sharply" —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "Several Poland players knew her and Młynarczyk had just been to Italy to play for Widzew Łódź against Juventus.": I'm afraid I slightly lose the meaning of this sentence. Is it "Several Poland players knew her" Młynarczyk had just been to Italy to play for Widzew Łódź against Juventus" or "Several Poland players knew had just been to Italy to play for Widzew Łódź against Juventus." Or something else?

• I've put a comma in (her, and Młynarczyk) to try to make this clearer. It's the former case. —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "A number of journalists attacked the players who had supported Młynarczyk; the Przegląd Sportowy sports magazine ran the headline "no mercy for those guilty of the scandal at the airport" while Tempo was similarly severe, proclaiming "this cannot be tolerated"": Maybe I'm being stupid, but why do we have small caps here?

• I put it like that because it's a newspaper headline (thought it would add flavour as it better resembles how probably it would have looked as a headline), but it doesn't seem to fit with MOS so I've taken this out —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "with the football association president, Polish Army General Marian Ryba, escorting them on the plane.": We have a "with -ing" here, which is best avoided.

• OK. Have also redrawn slightly here —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "Smolarek received a two-month ban, with a six-month suspension period": I'm again struggling with the difference between ban and suspension here.

• I have tried to clarify here again (see above). "Smolarek received a two-month ban, which was suspended for six months" —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• "There were several other incidences of drunkenness": Would "incidents" be less of a mouthful? Sarastro1 (talk) 19:48, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• Yes I think so. —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• Thank you very much for your thoughts and kind words Sarastro, and I'm glad you enjoyed the article. I hope my responses above are all right. Hope you're well and have a great week. —Cliftonian (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Support: Looks good to me, and I'm happy to support now. Nice work! Sarastro1 (talk) 17:14, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the support and the kind words Sarastro. =) —Cliftonian (talk) 13:43, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Support: The use and placement of images is splendid, and the article is an entertaining read.--MarshalN20 ^Talk 15:28, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks Marshal! Glad you enjoyed the article. Keep well! —Cliftonian (talk) 16:45, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Ceranthor

• Kulesza eventually relented and allowed Młynarczyk to travel. - travel with the team

• OK —Cliftonian (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

• telephone connections between the coast and the hinterland, - Would be helpful to link hinterland for the lay reader

• OK —Cliftonian (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

• Smolarek left the club around 02:00, - assuming this is the morning, but this should be clarified. Same with two later instances.

• According to MOS:TIME this is the correct usage. (when a leading 0 is used, it is clear that this is in the morning; if we were using the 12-hour clock it would be rendered as "2:00 a.m.") —Cliftonian (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

• while Tempo was similarly severe - What's Tempo?

• A magazine. I've put that. —Cliftonian (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

• When the rest of the team returned to Poland, Terlecki once again attempted to form a footballers' union; securing the support of 16 other Poland international players, he wrote a letter to the PZPN declaring their intention to do so, leading the authorities to order them to face a tribunal. - This sentence is very long. Can you split into two?

• OK, I've replaced the semicolon with a full stop. I agree this is better. —Cliftonian (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

• but contended that the incident was only minor, and had been made to appear worse by disproportionately prominent and negative press coverage. - There must be a more eloquent way than "had been made to appear worse". "had been exacerbated" works.

• OK, I've put that. Thanks for this —Cliftonian (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Otherwise, excellent stuff. Once my comments are fixed, I'll gladly support. ceranthor 01:34, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Ceranthor for the helpful comments and the kind words. Have a great rest of the week. —Cliftonian (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Support - Comments resolved, I think this is a wonderful article worthy of the star. Nice work, Cliftonian! ceranthor 21:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

• Thank you very much Ceranthor! :) —Cliftonian (talk) 05:32, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Note -- Hi John, unless I've missed it above, pls seek an image review at your earliest... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:01, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Ian. I've just requested an image review from Crisco 1492 (talk · contribs) on his talk page. —Cliftonian (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

• Image review:
  • Why are the images of Młynarczyk and Terlecki so small?
    • I've made them a bit bigger.
  • File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-N0623-0018, Fußball-WM, VR Polen - Italien 2-1.jpg - Copyright wise this is fine, but I question how useful it is in this article (since it is two years removed, and the only individual depicted who was also mentioned in this article (Lato) was not part of the protest
    • It's just a basic illustration of the team. I shows what the kit looked like, etc, and I think it gives the article a bit of flavour. I think it adds more than it takes away. —Cliftonian (talk) 17:00, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
  • File:Jozef Mlynarczyk.jpg - Okay
  • File:Warsaw Okecie airport old tower March 2003.jpg - Assuming the structure is still under copyright, please add {{FoP-Poland}}
    • OK, have done. —Cliftonian (talk) 17:00, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
  • File:StanTerlecki.jpg - How do we know this image was first published in Poland? The source is quite recent.
    • We don't know. I assumed at the time I uploaded it that it probably was as it was described by a Polish source as "archive" and attributed only to "SPORT" (it's used again here and attributed the same way), but this isn't conclusive—he's wearing the shirt of the Poland team so the picture could easily be from a game in another country. So I think we have to lose this one unfortunately. I've taken it out of the article. —Cliftonian (talk) 17:00, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
  • File:JohannesPaul2-portrait.jpg - Who's the original author? Source image doesn't say.
    • The original source page (here) doesn't either. —Cliftonian (talk) 17:00, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
      • Then I'd write "Unknown" or "Uncredited" for both this image and the source image's author. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:04, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
        • OK, I've put "uncredited". —Cliftonian (talk) 05:32, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
  • File:Ryszard Kulesza 1979.jpg - Fine. Heck, I'll even get you a higher resolution version. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:08, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
  • File:Antoni Piechniczek VII kadencja Kancelaria Senatu.jpg - Fine. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:08, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
    • Thanks Crisco, very much appreciated. And so quickly too! —Cliftonian (talk) 17:00, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
• Images are okay - I've added an "uncredited" line to the original PJPII image. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:17, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks for this Crisco; much obliged as always. Have a great weekend —Cliftonian (talk) 08:22, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.