Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hero of the Donetsk People's Republic

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to Donetsk People's Republic. Consensus exists below that the article does not meet our policies & guidelines for sourcing, and that the sources proposed either aren't SIGCOV or aren't reliable. Split support for both merge and outright deleting so going with merge per ATD. Daniel (talk) 18:20, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Hero of the Donetsk People's Republic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Doesn't meet WP:GNG, only one source which mentions the award in passing. Rsk6400 (talk) 12:23, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics and Ukraine. Rsk6400 (talk) 12:23, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Awards-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:34, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Note: I notified WikiProject Ukraine (Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ukraine#Articles_for_deletion_discussions:_Hero_of_the_Luhansk_/_Donetsk_People's_Republic) and Talk:Luhansk People's Republic of this discussion. Rsk6400 (talk) 13:02, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Delete, not a notable award. It can be mentioned in articles on recipients.-- Toddy1 (talk) 12:40, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Keep, This article and the similar Hero of the Luhansk People's Republic needs to be expanded and not deleted. Hero of DPR even finds an article with Reuters when Kadyrov was awarded with it. Chechen armed forces assemble to honour Putin and his ally Kadyrov Shaan Sengupta^Talk 14:55, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

  Don't think the Reuters article passes WP:SIGCOV. Rsk6400 (talk) 15:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

  Passing mention in the context of a single ceremony where Pushilin and Kadyrov serviced each other, in a 160-word news flash. Not SIGCOV of the subject of the award.  —Michael Z. 04:25, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Delete and merge Non-notable, but there should be a couple sentences on it somewhere. North8000 (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Merge/Delete not notable on it's own right. Maybe we can make an article along the lines of "Russian Separatist Awards" and include Hero of the Luhansk People's Republic and other even less notable awards. Scu ba (talk) 19:34, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

  Non-notable × ∞ = infinitely non-notable.  —Michael Z. 04:27, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Merge: probably to Donetsk People's Republic. Deletion is not preferred per WP:ATD since this is a valid target. Curbon7 (talk) 06:51, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Keep. WP:BEFORE requires a search for Russian-language sources. The corresponding article in Russian ru:Герой Донецкой Народной Республики has lots of references. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 11:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

  Sources like "i1289.photobucket.com/albums/", "www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dVWH_k9xIA", "Газета ДНР" (controlled by the self-proclaimed government of the DNR). As far as I see, all the sources in the article are controlled by the Kremlin or the Donetsk People's Republic. The problem with Russian-language sources is that there is no freedom of the press left in Russia. Rsk6400 (talk) 11:54, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

  A source controlled by the Government of Russia is reliable for a statement that someone was given the award by Russia/Donetsk People's Republic. Though it is not necessarily reliable for stating the someone was not given the award, since people sometimes are airbrushed from Russian history. But such a source is not evidence of notability.-- Toddy1 (talk) 12:08, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Delete. Award serves to prop up Russian propaganda claims to a region of Ukraine and award is emblem of occupation and not notable on it's own right. Could create new page on Russian attempts to assert administrative control. Stoptheprop (talk) 18:56, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree with you! Let's together create page "Russian attempts to assert administrative control on Ukraine"? I think would be cool if we include not only 2014-nowadays, but earlier period such as Russian Empire period? Stoptheprop FYI Antonio Vinzaretti (talk) 08:23, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

The problem with Russian-language sources on Pro-russian topics is that there is no freedom of the press left in Russia. They all act undergo government totalitarism agenda. Antonio Vinzaretti (talk) 08:24, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• Delete. Just delete. There’s literally nothing notable here to contribute to other subjects.  —Michael Z. 04:32, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

I guess one source can be used in Joseph Kobzon. The other is just “Kadyrov held a parade.”  —Michael Z. 04:35, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per above Parham wiki (talk) 17:07, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Lots of ideas here. Definitely worthy of a relisting.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• I believe this page ought to be kept because it relates to an award that exists - you may not like the politics that led to its creation (I certainly do not!) but that doesn't alter the fact that it has been established. It's on my website - medals.org.uk - which is frequently cited as a source for information. When I have a moment I'll see if I can improve this page. Megan C Robertson (talk) 15:41, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

But please remember that we need reliable sources. And since medals.org.uk is self-published, it's no RS. Rsk6400 (talk) 15:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

It's a fake symbol of a fake country. If I create "Honored hero of Stoppropistan" and say it has an orange and purple flag, and I personally assign it to people who kiss my ass, will you be including that on your website too? Stoptheprop (talk) 17:12, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Keep: Worth noting that it is notable because it is the highest award of the separatist movement. We have articles about the high awards of other entities not widely internationally recognized like Hero of Artsakh. The mere existance of an article about an award is not an endorsement of the award. There are many sources about the award, just most are not english. Just because you can't find source in english doesnt mean it isnt covered. Kursant504 (talk) 05:08, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

  as User:Antonio_Vinzaretti points out, the problem with Russian-language sources on Pro-Russia topics is that there is no freedom of the press left in Russia and they all act under the instruction of the Kremlin Stoptheprop (talk) 18:58, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

  Even if Russia having censorship doesn't mean that Russian media coverage cannot demonstrate SIGCOV, nor does the use of the award for propaganda mean it isn't notable. We have articles about Confederate awards like the Confederate Medal of Honor, but having that article doesn't mean that Wikipedia is pro-Confederacy.Kursant504 (talk) 12:19, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

  Sources that are clearly non-neutral, non-independent, and unreliable do not contribute to SIGCOV and are generally not allowed, regardless of their language or place of publication. But it’s no coincidence that Russia’s propaganda about its aggression against Ukraine falls into this category.  —Michael Z. 14:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

• Keep as redirect and merge to DPR main article (probably in the "Recognition and international relations" section). Possible search term and some of the content is useful (demonstrates the close relations between DPR and Chechyna officials, for example). Dan the Animator 19:26, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

*Delete. Award serves to prop up Russian propaganda claims to a region of Ukraine and award is emblem of occupation and not notable in it's own right. Could create new page on Russian attempts to assert symbolic/administrative control. Stoptheprop (talk) 28 October 2023 (UTC)

@Stoptheprop: I suggest you self-revert because you have only one vote. Rsk6400 (talk) 12:40, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

... or - maybe better - strike one of your two votes using <s> and </s>. Rsk6400 (talk) 12:42, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

ah, the discussion was relisted so wasn't sure if that meant we needed to restate our position Stoptheprop (talk) 14:06, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.