User talk:Realist2/Archive 38

The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) has given you a dove! Doves promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day happier. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a dove, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past (this fits perfectly) or a good friend. Cheers!

---

Spread the peace of doves by adding {{subst:Peace dove}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

Love you too :D. — Please comment R² 14:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello. I remembered listening to "Let Me Let Go" by Jason Malachi late last year, after I had learned about Michael Jackson and wanted to listen to everything by him. I wonder if you have listened to it yet. It's an interesting song; he does sound like Jackson, and had me fooled at first. However, after I realized it was him, I listened more closely, and somehow his voice doesn't have the depth of Jackson's. Somewhat hollow, compared to the real deal. It sounds like a mix of "Scream" and "You Rock My World". I really like how he did the "yeah yeah yeah" thing in the beginning. His voice is not quite like Jackson's voice in Invincible, however similar. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 03:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about deleting that one section. I was cleaning up all of the references and I must have deleted the entire section by accident while trying to clean up too many references at once. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 22:13, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

No problem. :) — Please comment R² 22:37, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

As the third largest contributor to this article, I wanted to let you know that the article is currently up for deletion. Ikip (talk) 19:37, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi realist Ive noticed that you've done an extraordinary job on several pages and I was wondering if you could bring you input onto this page http://en.wikipedia.orghttps://wikifreehand.com/en/Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists#elvis_and_beatles_sales_are_inflated_too . One editor changed record sales for one artist and didnt do it for otheres that are in the same boat as he. Its leading to harsh debates. Can you please lend a hand to what you believe? ITalkTheTruth (talk) 07:30, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Well I'm glad to see that you are back. How are you? I have really missed you here. Couldnot even contact you since I don't have you on IM. Welcome!!!! --Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm only making minor contributions right now. — Please comment R² 10:43, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm gld you're back. With the things I've seen and dealyt with (both Mj and non-MJ related), I wanna throw in the towel as well. MaJic (talk) 16:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I was surprised to see your name in the "support" side. Why do you favor such an obviously inflated figure?—Kww(talk) 13:43, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe articles or lists like that are fundamentally unsuited to Wikipedia if I'm honest. I've always supported added the highest claim for an album/single/artist so long as the publication making the claim in reputable. When numerous reliable sources make numerous different claims, how do we choose? Without letting our POV get in the way? It's simply easier to go with the highest claim, to avoid circular arguments. Remember, Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. How can we possibly argue that CNN is better than BBC or MSNBC better than Rolling Stone? We can't. They are all top quality sources making very different claims about Jackson's sales. It is simply easier to accept the highest figure and move on, I would do the same for other acts/albums that are equally inflated, such as Elvis or The Beatles. Our policies, and us as opinionated people are simply not equipped to reach a conclusion on this issue. — Please comment R² 22:55, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, these are the cases that I find the most interesting, where it's necessary to weigh one source against the other. The WSJ analysis seems compelling, and jibes with reality. What I think the real problem is that people want to have one number, and then sort the artists by that number. I think it would be better to sort by the sum of certified sales, and then provide the range of estimates from reliable sources. In practical fact, neither number is going away. If the article lists 750M, there will be people changing it to 350M, and if the article lists 350M, there will be people changing it to 750M.

On a related note, are you aware of any fan-sites that are pushing people to go the the talk page and vote? Even after all the socks were cleared away, there are about 10 accounts that were created solely to support the 750M figure, which makes me suspect an organized lobbying campaign.—Kww(talk) 01:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

R2, well said; that pretty well sums up my own views too. People seem to be somewhat confused over the "verifiability not truth" thing, which is at the heart of this whole debate. I remain as neutral as I can possibly be, and I am trying my best to mediate.

Kww I am well aware of the socking issues that have troubled the page; several users have been blocked, and I assure you that I will do my utmost to take that into account in all evaluations. The truth is, it is a debate, not a vote; we're looking for clear policy arguments. The problem, currently, is that many users seem incapable of keeping their discussions brief and to the point - the sheer size of the page is offputting to other potential contributors to the debate. I tried to alleviate that problem days ago with my 'summary so far' - but despite my pleas for brief, policy-based arguments we yet again have pages of WP:TLDR to wade through and extract any valid arguments. Oh well, there is no deadline, I remain (perhaps naively) optimistic that we can resolve this.  Chzz  ►  04:47, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Reply to Kww. I don't follow any fan sites, except for official news sections, I don't use or read the forums. Actually when the sales figure was at 750 million there didn't seem to be any problem and the occasional alteration was reverted. Since someone moved his estimate down to 300-350 there seems to be absolute madness. We need to reach a consensus on the figure, and revert people who go against that consensus. For me at least, is seems impossible to reach a consensus other than "always accept the highest figure". Using certifications is a serious disadvantage to Jackson, because his sales are disproportionately low in the US and UK. If you look at his albums, you will see that US certifications only make up 25% of the albums total sales. Take Dangerous for example, total sales of 30-32 million, but only 7 million in the US. The US market counts for 50% so we would expect his US sales for Dangerous to be closer to 14-16 million, not 7. This is the same with all Jackson's albums. A large portion of his sales come from countries that don't traditionally buy music. — Please comment R² 11:09, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey how are you? Im fine and totally exhausted with developing the Madonna articles for GA. As promised I have started the Madonna wikiproject. you feared that people might not be interested right? :) Well see how many people have joined. Also check the incredible amount of work that we are doing to develop all her articles! Even one of your favourite albums. Regards. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 13:15, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Dear colleague, I just want to wish you a happy, hopefully, extended holiday weekend and nice end to summer! Your friend, --A Nobody^{My talk} 05:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

PLEASE tell me there's something in the Wiki rules that says you cannot use Wiki for a complete list of anything. MaJic (talk) 04:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I have a problem with this user Eurotop1 (talk) that keep deleting every change i do on Shakira page and he doesn´t want to go to his talk page. He even delete my comments in his talk page. Can you help me please. Sorry for my english.--Albes29 (talk) 15:57, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Greetings, Realist2. I'm posting to let you know that I have listed you as an editor who had an unsuccessful RfA in the not-too-recent, not-too-distant past on the talk page for RfA's here. If you are interested in running for administratorship (or not), or if you would like to make any comments, feel free to join the discussion. If you might be interested, but would like some private confidential feedback from experienced observers, I would be happy to propose this via the new vetting service. Regards,  Skomorokh  18:18, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I recently began work on clearing Editor Review, and I ran across yours. It was posted in March, received some reviews, and has not been edited since July 3. Is it okay if I close it out? If you desire, I can review your work as well. Thanks.  JUJUTACULAR | TALK  16:04, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to close it. — Please comment R² 08:37, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

		Civility Award
		Great job working with others, especially on the Michael Jackson articles. DizFreak talk Contributions 08:13, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Merci ;) — Please comment R² 18:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Get your "revert" button ready. – iridescent 15:48, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey Irid, unfortunately I really have retired from editing, but still read Wiki. I still support what we are doing, and will continue to donate, but my time has passed. Keep up the good work though. I'm watching. :) — Please comment R² 18:04, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Janet's my territory. :) The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 21:50, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Missing u girl ;) — Please comment R² 19:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Hehe. You're so sweet. :) The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 23:36, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello Realist2, Caden has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Hi, I am looking through some IP history and I noticed your edit here If you have details regarding this I would appreciate details, if you prefer please feel free to email me at the link on my talkpage, thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 01:23, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

The triumph of hope over experience applies here, I feel. In a fast-moving environment, particularly Michael Jackson-related articles, to which Realist2 was, while here fully committed, short-term disruption is the norm. Accordingly, to expect a recollection of an anonymous wasp at the picnic is unlikely. Three months later, I can't see how it's worth the effort of looking into the actions of a floating IP editor. Rodhullandemu 01:37, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, but I have an identity for the ip. Off2riorob (talk) 01:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

One relevant edit? I'd be interested why we now need to take any action. Rodhullandemu 01:43, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Its a story, I am getting some harrassment and looking into sockpuppet actions in respect of this, this ip is part of the story and if the user was blocked as this ip then he would be blocked in all appearances. My comment here is only a polite request to share whatever it was that made realist make that comment. Off2riorob (talk) 01:48, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

That's a UK Tiscali address. Most British IP addresses are dynamic, and checkuser and other wiki-sleuthing are meaningless when it comes to them; UK users are generally allocated a new IP address every time they switch the computer on. The only way to block a UK IP address is with a rangeblock so broad it would take in 20% of the population; it's not going to happen. – iridescent 10:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes thanks, it is tiscali, the IPs are identifiable to the User by matching edit history, I am not looking to block the IP range, I am looking to expose the harassment and reveal any possible variants from policy, such as in relation to this question here, block evasion. If this IP was blocked then if he had an account then continueing to use the account would be against policy. Yes? Off2riorob (talk) 11:05, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I see that the IP will not have been blocked as it is basically unblockable...I was only wondering when Realist said "blocked IP troll" that perhaps he said it, not out of frustration but out of specific knowledge. Off2riorob (talk) 11:08, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for participating in WP:Requests for adminship/Kww 3
Sometimes, being turned back at the door isn't such a bad thing

—Kww(talk) 18:45, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I realised I don't know it. And I'm sick of having to write on here every time I'm drunk and wondering what you're up to.

http://fanofmusic.free.fr/BestSellersWorldActs / http://fanofmusic.free.fr/BestSellersWorldAlbums - thought this might be of interest to you. Yes I *know* it's not verified crap, I don't expect you to put it on Wiki. But it's by an informed character who is very well known. He was ina few Hitsville articles before, and he's MJDAngerous on UKMix.org I believe...thought you'd be curious as to what an actual industry expert who is not working for any label has to say about these things. I was surprised at a few things. I'd always believed Back In Black the second biggest selling album ever.

(The Elfoid (talk) 02:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC))

I'll send you it. We must chat:) — R² 11:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

As Halloween is my favorite holiday, I just wanted to wish those Wikipedians who have been nice enough to give me a barnstar or smile at me, supportive enough to agree with me, etc., a Happy Halloween! Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 18:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Hope everything is going well with you! MaJic Talk 2 Me. I'll Listen. 04:41, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Things are going OK my friend, I saw the MJ film the other night, I was profoundly moved by it's content. — R² 20:25, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Good. I thought it was genius. MaJic Talk 2 Me. I'll Listen. 19:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Real, there is a problematic user (A Star Is Here) that posts materials with fake sources, or with unrealiable source. For example, in Bad (album) section, he posted some certifications with the sources that don't claims that sales and certifications (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bad_(album)&action=historysubmit&diff=323382634&oldid=323208595). In the Off the Wall and Thriller albums sections, he added 1 million to the total sales because in the US, Off the Wall and Thriller were certified with another million, but if we look the sum of the certifications that we have got country by country, Off the Wall sold 12 million copies and Thriller sold 44 million copies. We can't add that million if the sum of the certification is not 20 million (for Off the Wall) and 110 million (for Thriller). For HIStory, he added always a comment of the MJ Blog that has got also a link with an illegal free download at the end of the article. I written to him, but nothing answer. SJ (talk) 03:11, 02 Nov. 2009 (UTC)

I hope in a your answer very soon. SJ (talk) 00:46, 03 Nov. 2009 (UTC)

Realist2 (bless him) is not around that much these days and does not seem to get involved in issues like this. Meanwhile, I've left some advice for another editor on my Talk page, which I urge you also to consider. Rodhullandemu 00:01, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Rod is correct. Simone, I do not edit much at the moment and do not get involved with editing disputes anymore. I am not the best person to contact anymore, not that I ever was. — R² 20:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello. I'm nominating Ashley Tisdale discography for FL but during the nomination, I had a problem with another user, Goodraise. He said he won't support the nomination because of the references used for the UK charts: Chart-Stats and Zobbel. Although I've said there is no alternate online archive for the UK Top 100 or Top 200, he doesn't seems to change his mind. Then, user Kww came with the idea to change the reference into a physical copy of Music Week magazine, which publishes the full UK chart, so his argument would disappear.

The main problem is that I don't have any idea about where I can find all the needed information in order to use the magazine as the reference (exact issue number for each charted song, pages, etc...). Kww told me you are British and you may be able to help me. So, do you know where I can find these kind of informations about Music Week? It's going to be a hard work but I really wanto see Tisdale's discography promoted into FL. If you want to read the entire story, you should read Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Ashley Tisdale discography/archive1. Thanks! Decodet (talk) 15:02, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi there Decodet, unfortunately I do not know anything about Music Week. If you are looking for chart positions or sales figures, you might want to do a Google search, use Google news or use Google books. — R² 20:23, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

You are keeping well :) Did you see the new MJ film? --Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:32, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm going well, saw the film, loved it. It's doing really well too, which is nice :). How are Lady Gaga articles going? I love Bad Romance by the way, and I have tickets to see her live. :) — R² 11:59, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, I was travelling and reached LA today. The Gaga articles are a huge headache as usual but they are coming up nice. :) I got the tickets for the December 1 show in Boston. Will be staying in LA for this week and then will move to NY. I love the creativity behind the "Bad Romance" music video. Haven't seen amything like it for a long time. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:57, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

This is in the Daily Mail today , and it is relevant to the problems over at Michael Jackson. Like yourself, I don't have the time to pick through a mass of bitty editing or to get involved in constant reverts. Michael Jackson has been seriously overedited since his death in June, and the quality of the article has suffered as a result. It would be very WP:BOLD to go back to the June version and start again, but it is worth considering.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 09:57, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I just wanted to wish those Wikipedians who have been nice enough to give me a barnstar or smile at me, supportive enough to agree with me, etc., a Happy Thanksgiving! Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 06:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Dear Realist2, I think you're not realistic. Wikipedia should contain correct information. History is maybe the best-selling double album for a solo artist, it's surely not the best-selling double album of all time. Pink Floyd's The Wall sold in 1990 already 19 million copies (not units, but double albums, look to the very reliable source of the New York Times source). At this moment The Wall sold at least 13,5 million copies in the US only. So, we can better say that History is one of the best-selling double albums worldwide. Greets.Christo jones (talk) 12:53, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Could you come to Talk:If U Seek Amy#Genre and engage in discussion? I will renominate the article for GA and we need sources to establish the genre.
Thanks, Xwomanizerx 15:02, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

A Nobody^{My talk} is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:Flaming/MC2008}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

To those who make Good Arguments, who are appreciative, or supportive. Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 19:49, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I got this message from you a few days ago:
"Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. — R2 14:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)"
If you're going to revert anything, at least specify what page you've made the revision to. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by D bovair1988 (talk • contribs) 23:30, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi Realist2! I read that you are in the Wikipedia:PRV and I need someone who help me with the copyedit because I try to promote every articles-releated to Cher for the Good Status. Can you help with this song (Hell on Wheels (song)) and in future for others articles of Cher? Kekkomereq4 (talk) 06:36, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I'm very inactive at Wikipedia these days I am afraid, sorry. — R² 12:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I don't mean to bother you but I was wondering, seeing as though your a member of the Michael Jackson Wikiproject, could you GA review the article "This Is It (Michael Jackson song)" (it's currently a GA nom.) Thanks, Crystal Clear x3 07:21, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I'm very inactive at Wikipedia these days I am afraid, sorry. — R² 12:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Hey there! Just dropping by to say hi. I haven't talked to you in a long time, my apologies. I have been working on another project, and am balancing classes with it as well. I am glad to see that you are back, albeit inactive. I am semi-retired now, as well. Is your e-mail address still the same? CarpetCrawler^{message me} 07:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Hey. Yes my email is still the same. If you want to email that, or send me an email through Wikipedia, I'd love to hear from you. Likewise I am juggling uni work and my social life. Mostly though, I have just given up on this once glorious place. — R² 18:57, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

That you don't login that much nowadays and sorry to disturb you, (Its so bad that both you and Carpet left) but can you just take an eye on the Madonna bio? I believe that time has come for it to be an FA again. Since you promoted MJ and JJ, just leave some pointers please. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:05, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

		The Original Barnstar
		For being one of the greatest editors in the history of Wikipedia, the long overdue original from me. I hope you stick around.UBER (talk) 20:18, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Aww thank you Uber, you were the person that first got me into Wikipedia :P I will be sticking around, you will see lots more of me come June. — R² 12:28, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Good Articles will be running a GAN backlog elimination drive for the entire month of April. The goal of this drive is to bring the number of outstanding Good Article nominations down to below 200. This will help editors in restoring confidence to the GAN process as well as actively improving, polishing, and rewarding good content. If you are interested in participating in the drive, please place your name here. Awards will be given out to those who review certain numbers of GANs as well as to those who review the most. Hope we can see you in April.

–MuZemike delivered by MuZebot 18:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Given your area of editing you might fancy Michael Jackson & Friends for a spot o'cleanup/confirmation of notability. Ironholds (talk) 08:53, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey, sorry, I don't edit much these days, just read this message. To be honest I think it is a bit absurd how many new Jackson articles have been created since his death, many of them on obscure album tracks. I'll spend some time on this tonight/tomorrow and see If I can do anything with it. — R² 13:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant, thanks! Ironholds (talk) 14:17, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey Realist. It's been a long time. I have to admit the days were a lot easery on the MJ page when you watched over it honorably and managed what was best for the page. I know you always work hard on the Mj article and so I know you and a few others should have a say on the talk page whether the section legacy and influence should stay the same, be trimmed, removed or maybe it own page maybe. The Almighty King (talk) 17:08, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

...leave some comments at the FA candidacy for "Speechless (Michael Jackson song)"? Me and User:Pyrrhus16 would appreciate if you could comment on the article. Thanks, Crystal Clear x3 21:43, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

You edited off Ushers worldwide album sales even though it was sourced and the citations for Here I Stand and its worldwide sales were left off because it has it below in the Here I Stand section. Since it is, there doesn't have to be a citation in the lead. Revert your edit.-Thank You BlindSideBME (talk) 22:59, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

You can go ahead and ignore this comment. Obvious sockpuppet is obvious. — ξ^xplicit 19:37, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Karanacs (talk) 17:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Good to see you taking the MJ articles back under your wing. I hope your exams went well, and if I remember correctly it will be a week or so before you get the results. Good luck! Rodhullandemu 23:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I had my results a few days ago. Got my 2.1 :) Taking a year out, then I will apply for a course ready for September 2011. Likely a PGCE or diploma in teaching. :) — R² 23:47, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

YAAAAYYY!!! Well done. I am really very happy for you. In fact I am all in tears for your success right now. Take some time out, sure, but why not Law College or the Bar? Best of luck anyways. Rodhullandemu 23:51, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Thankyou :) Well universities are currently pushing graduates to go down the LPC route. If I were to do the LPC for a year, and pay my rent at uni, food bills etc etc, that year would cost me somewhere in the region of £14,000-16,000. This is a lot of money, doing thr PGCE for a year would only cost about £8,000. I've always wanted to teach, and I would love to teach law, to sixth forms or adults in a college. That's the plan anyway. One day I could always do the LPC, when I'm older, with more money. — R² 04:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

welcome back R2. You always had the mj section intact when you were running the show. Can read this and tell me what you think. http://en.wikipedia.orghttps://wikifreehand.com/en/Talk:Michael_Jackson#Victory_Tour_glove_sells_for_.24190K —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.58.79.109 (talk) 19:35, 28 June 2010 (UTC)