Talk:Pullman Flatiron Building

This article was nominated for deletion on 8 February 2023. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

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Good effort. Well done. Wwwhatsup (talk) 06:15, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

This article is not well written, contained a lot of editorializing. We should avoid reinforcing such behaviors. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 16:41, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

• Primary creator’s only contribs on Wiki are this single article.
• Editorialized tone injected throughout.
• Majority of sources are from a single local “Historical Society” which may itself have created this article, or someone with a vested interest may have.
• Seems of hyper-local interest without broader notability. Informationageuser (talk) 20:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

  After reviewing this article and removing what is editorializing, half of it is simply about the architect, and I have serious WP:N concerns. I am going to highlight this for deletion as not every building is notable enough for a wikipedia page LegalSmeagolian (talk) 16:42, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Source assessment table prepared by User:LegalSmeagolian

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Edwin Garretson 2012	email from historical society member	no way to verify contents of the email unless it is published elsewhere	no way to know the detail in the email	✘ No
Esther Pond Smith 2012		Even after researching, cannot find what document this cite is referencing, therefore left to have to trust original citer that this document/author states what is rephrased in the article		? Unknown
https://www.google.com/books/edition/An_Illustrated_History_of_Whitman_County/ajFEAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=swain	author is independent	The source is well researched book	no mention of the pullman flatiron, just the architect. This is the "Lever 1901 document" source previously identified as being from the Whitman County Historical Society (and it was being considered suspect as a source? it is fine)	✘ No
William Swain House	government run site	government run sight about historic buildings	cites to a different building, no mention of this building	✘ No
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/75613702	government run site NARA provides e-versions of vast array of govt and non-govt documents... this is written by privater parties	government run sight about historic buildings This is NRHP doc for Wm Swain House, now properly cited in article, addresses Swain.	cites to a different building, no mention of this building. Also there is NRHP doc for United Presbyterian Church.	✘ No
Ted McDonough - https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=0klj8wIChNAC&dat=19940212&printsec=frontpage&hl=en	local newspaper	local newspaper	~ coverage restricted to 1994 incident regarding front loader and reconstruction	~ Partial
Photographs - primary source, does not impact notability	from library	from library	no idea how detailed of coverage	✔ Yes
Selene Santucci. Personal phone interview. 28 Feb 2012		likely from writer of the article, no idea if they took a transcript of call, or credentials of the caller	no idea how detailed of coverage	✘ No
Daily Evergreen/Spokesman review - no article titles or author so unhelpful without more info				? Unknown
Sorenson - https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=0klj8wIChNAC&dat=19940212&printsec=frontpage&hl=en	newspaper	newspaper	~ coverage restricted to 1994 incident regarding front loader and reconstruction	~ Partial
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

LegalSmeagolian (talk) 18:59, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Your tabulating your assessments here is perhaps helpful in the ongoing AFD and/or for further development of the article, thank you for providing this. However, IMO your assessments of the local historical society documents are too harsh. "After research" you conclude one or another of the local documents (an email, interview notes, annotations, etc.) cannot be found. However I rather expect all these are in a folder at the local historical society, and/or in a folder at the local library. For the record, User:LegalSmeagolian, can you verify that you did or did not try to contact the local historical society, and/or that you did or did not reach anyone to request that they check for these documents? It's okay if you did not, but let's just be clear. Thanks, --Doncram (talk,contribs) 22:41, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

I did not, as I don't believe that unpublished email correspondence and notes from an interview satisfy what is set out in:

• WP:SOURCE

As you can see from my locating of the Sorensen and McDonough articles, as well as the History of Whitman County book, I have put effort into trying to source documents that are actually published, reliable sources. This is not to say information provided by historical society staff is unreliable, however, it does not alone satisfy Wikipedia's guidelines. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 00:31, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

User:LegalSmeagolian, the URLs here for Sorenson and McDonough articles are the same. Are they really in the same issue of The Spokane Review, or is McDonough's URL supposed to be different? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 19:39, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

They should be different, I made an oopsie with my copy paste - they are different papers i believe LegalSmeagolian (talk) 19:41, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

I'll stop editing for now due to edit conflicts (sorry!!!!!) LegalSmeagolian (talk) 19:43, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Wait sorry fixing now for the missing article LegalSmeagolian (talk) 19:44, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! U r on a roll, can u get either or both of the The Daily Evergreen 11 Feb 1994. Print., and The Spokesman Review 11 Feb 1994. Print., too?

I went to call the Whitman County Historical Society today but they're closed until the weekend, supposed to be open 10-2 S Su i think. And an "archives" committee is open only on Wednesdays. So getting the "folder" contents that I propose exist will take a little while.--Doncram (talk,contribs) 04:38, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

I am not sure about "clio" source on Pullman Flatiron Building, not previously used in article or covered above. Is it partly or wholly plagiarized/copyvio from a local document? Clio suggests citing as "Admin, Clio, Rebecca Woodham, and Katie Pratt on behalf of City of Pullman. "Pullman Flatiron Building ." Clio: Your Guide to History. March 6, 2018. Accessed February 9, 2023. https://www.theclio.com/entry/49368". ? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 06:15, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Yeah it seems plagiarized and not a reliable source so I didn't touch it LegalSmeagolian (talk) 12:47, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

The architect paragraph here would serve as a great basis for a new biography article, as it does seem that the architect is notable and has multiple designs that have been deemed historic, as well as serving as a local elected official. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 17:01, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

@Doncram- is the National Register of Historic Places listings in Whitman County, Washington link really appropriate here? This makes it seem like either it is on the NRHP (it isn't) or that whatever editor worked on the page thinks it should be, which is not the point of Wikipedia. Flatiron list, on the other hand, is appropriate. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:12, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

It's gone. And NRHP-listed William Swain House (currently a redlink, see Draft:William Swain House) is linked now. Thanks. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 03:52, 11 February 2023 (UTC)